00;00;02;01 - 00;00;43;09

Joanie intro

In today's episode of Room to Grow. Curtis and I are talking about something that doesn't come up enough in math education spaces. The sustainability of the people doing the work. We explore three ideas that we think every math teacher deserves to hear. That burnout is a systemic signal and not a personal failure.

That durable purpose is something you can reconnect with, even in the hardest seasons of your career, and that the professional community you build around yourself is not a luxury. It's what makes a long and meaningful career in math education possible. We hope that this conversation feels honest, practical, and like a genuine acknowledgment of how much math teachers carry.

So let's get growing.

00;00;43;11 - 00;01;26;14

Curtis

Well hey Joanie I am so excited to be recording the Room to Grow podcast again with you today.

It is the end or near the end of April and we are talking today. Man it is, it is one of those situations where this is the end of the school year or nearing the end of the school year.

For many of our listeners and I know about for myself, that this was about the time for spring break had just happened. So we kind of got that little boost. And then the boost has worn off. Right. And now I'm looking at the last six weeks, eight weeks, to the end of the school year. And I'm tired. And I don't know about you, but I am I'm, I can say that my kids feel it right now for sure.

00;01;28;14 - 00;01;41;10

Joanie

I had a, I had a FaceTime call with my son and daughter in law who are both teachers, and. Yeah, that was definitely like, I mean, they're also parents of one year old twins, so they've got their hands full, but,

00;01;41;12 - 00;01;45;22

Curtis

And that makes me tired just thinking that.

00;01;45;25 - 00;03;33;21

Joanie

Their eyes a like kind of glazed over, like, oh, it's that time of year where we're just like, so ready.

The end is in sight. We're so ready for the end to be done. So yeah, I think this is definitely that time of year where there's burnout, there's exhaustion, there's, you know, just kind of that like, oh, I just have to make it through. So,

 I'm excited for the conversation that we're going to have today. Curtis.

And I'll if you don't mind, I'll go ahead and give a little frame to our listeners around what it is we're going to talk about today, because it is I think this time of year does align with us, but I also think this is a bigger topic that is relevant for educators, regardless of what time of the school year it is.

You know, maybe there are certain certainly times during the school year where these kinds of issues come up. But I've been kind of working on and developing, conference session around sustainability. So really thinking about things like burnout and stress and, you know, just managing all of the emotional load that teaching brings.

And I appreciate your willingness to engage in a podcast conversation with me around this as I as I work to develop the ideas around this session. yeah. So we're just going to talk about the idea around sustainability as educators and managing all of the emotional stress and burden that comes with being a teacher. So,

I would I would love to maybe just start having you reflect on your days in the classroom and your experience working with educators as a professional learning provider.

And, and tell me, like, from your perspective of I talked about teacher burnout. Like, what does that make you think about? And what is what does burnout look like for a teacher? And how is burnout different than just how? It's the end of the school year and I'm exhausted or different from just like I was a really hard week.

00;03;33;24 - 00;07;14;04

Curtis

Yeah, yeah. I'm. As you ask that question I was trying to think about, how to kind of categorize those two things. So, you know, even as I started the episode, I was thinking about this, this idea of, and like, there's eight weeks to go, right? And this time of year is, I mean, there's a cycle, right? There's a cycle that all of us go through. Unless you're, I guess you're on year-round school. And so maybe that cycle is a little bit different, but, for the, for the vast majority of us that are on kind of that, nine month, nine and a half month schedule, you know, you start the year off really excited. It's a new school year. Everything is looking great. You've had all summer to kind of think about how you're going to start the school year. You got a whole new batch of students, maybe some new classes you're assigned. It's awesome.

And, and there's a lot of excitement for that. And for the most part, you're able to maintain and maybe it declines a little bit. And you get to to that, that Christmas break, the winter break, time frame and, and you're kind of at a, at a low, but it's not super, super low. And then you have a couple of weeks off spending time with family, doing nostalgic type things like, it's great, you get a little bit of a reboost,

and then, you know, you're going in and it's the spring and you've started new topics and maybe you're not as high as you were at the beginning of the school year, but you're still fresh-ish, you know, sort of.

And then you're, you're coming down a little bit and spring break happens. And so you have a little bit from spring break. And so you get a little boost there. But now we're looking at that boost after spring break has fallen off. And I know for me that these last several months, last several weeks, there's AP testing.

There's typically state level testing if your state has some sort of and of course, exam, for the classes you're teaching. So, like, there's a ton of pressure on these last several weeks making sure my students are, well, ready to go and that there's anything that we need to review, is there? You know, all those questions.

And so to me, this time of the year is maybe the, kind of the intersection of both the pressures of the classroom with all the expectations and the fact that we've been doing this thing for the last seven months and our brains are tired, our bodies are tired, our emotions are tired in, you know, the kids are anxious, the weather is improving.

And so they're ready to get outside. All the things are coming together. And so this is maybe one of the toughest times. I think that is separate from what burnout looks like. Burnout to me, looks like I have now lost my,

my desire. I've lost my, my, my care a little bit. Right? That like my I've lost it.

It sounds sounds a little bit, but I've lost my. Why. Right? I've lost the reason why I'm doing this. And now it feels a little bit meaningless. I think all those stressors that I was just talking about, those are things that they're stressors. They actually show that I still am caring quite a bit. The burnout looks different. There's a glazed over ness in my eyes. There's, I'm just going through the motions, feeling as I walk in the doors that that's what burnout actually, to me, feels and looks like. As I walk in the doors of my of my classroom. And I know that that can happen.

And it can maybe happen as a result of some of those stressors and those things, that come in.

But I think, I think it goes deeper than just being stressed.

00;07;15;12 - 00;09;05;22

Joanie

Yeah I, I would agree with that. I really like how you kind of mapped out the typical ebb and flow of a normal school year. And like that there's highs and lows and definitely are in terms of our energy, in terms of our emotions, in terms of our, resilience, ya know, think all of those are factors to think about.

But burnout is is at a deeper level. And one of the things that, you know, I think about, I know I experienced burnout multiple times during the course of my career, and even since I've left the classroom, I've experienced

for me that differentiates it is maybe hope is the right word.

rest doesn't help that I just have this kind of feeling of like, you know, this feeling of dread, this feeling of,

lack of energy, so to speak. And, and gosh, that just sounds like a person is depressed. And I don't think it's that, like, I think it's the, it's just the depletion that comes with this repeated, ongoing, continual, relentless stress.

And particularly as educators, that's just the nature of the job. So, you know, burnout feels like something that's going to very naturally happen to educators that, you know, we're dealing with children, we're dealing with young people, and we care. You know, I love that you use the word care. It's not that you've stopped caring.

But you maybe have lost some of the emotional energy that you've given. Yeah. You know, when you get to burnout, it's like, I just feel like I don't have any more emotional energy to give. Maybe that's a way to kind of sum it up.

00;09;05;25 - 00;10;09;19

Curtis

Yeah, I think so. I think there's. And you use the word hope. You know, I think there's sometimes you can look at scenarios and situations and there's a, there's a hope factor that is hard to muster when you don't have the emotional energy you've lost. You've invested so much emotional energy.

And maybe there's been difficult time getting, you know, getting beyond a certain point, being able to make certain successes, you know, coming in day after day and having the same kinds of challenges, all of those things can, can really weigh, on a person.

And it is possible to get beyond just that being tired, just the fact that it's the end of the school year,

in, in to a point where it feels monotonous and it feels, it feels endless. There's a there's a lack of of end. Right. It just seems like this is going to go on infinitely in this same cycle for me.

00;10;09;25 - 00;12;44;08

Joanie

Yeah. I like how you said that. So one of the resources that I am tapping into in developing this conference session that I want to do is a book called “Burnout.” The subtitle is “The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle.” And the authors on it are Emily and Amelia Nagasaki. And they talk about the stress and kind of like what you just described, I think, is that endlessness feeling is what happens after this continuous, ongoing, relentless stress that I think is really, really common for educators.

And that leads to burnout. So I want to talk a little bit about what they talk about in terms of the stress cycle, because we have to think about, the stress itself and the stress or the thing that is causing us stress. And I think as teachers, there are stress inducing things that are just the nature of our job.

Right? It's just you're not going to avoid stress as a teacher. That's just how it goes. But one of the things that's interesting as I, as I'm diving into this book is this idea of a stress cycle. So there's a stress or there's like this catalyst, an event or something that causes the stress to begin. And we feel the stress and we feel the stress emotionally. We feel the stress in our bodies. And and then there has to be a stress release. There has to be a way of closing that cycle where the stress is released from our bodies. And the thing that they talk about is that we have this misconception that to relieve the stress, we just remove the stressor. So, just get rid of the thing that's causing you stress and then you won't feel stress anymore.

But what their research shows is that, no, we actually have to close that stress cycle to shut down the stress in our body. So one of the things that they suggest that really resonated for me as an educator, and I think applies to many educators that I know, is that the stressor may go away, but that's the the stress cycle is not closed like I continue to build. I continue to experience that stress over and over and relentlessly with no end, just as you were describing. And that is the thing that leads to to burnout. So again, I want to ask you to reflect on your own experience or, experience with other educators, like how does that stress versus stressor resonate? And do you have experience thinking about actual what actually causes release of that stress or the completion of that stress cycle? What are your thoughts about that?

00;12;44;11 - 00;16;04;09

Curtis

No, I think I, I love that you, put this into words, something that, maybe I've experienced. Right.

But I've never had words for. So thank you for that. I also just did a really quick, Google while we were on this and noted that, this stress cycle is something that's out there in, in, in like, it's not it's not just in that book like the other people talk about that.

Right. So there's other people that talk about this and, and so that's, that's also affirming that,

this is something that I've observed even in my own self and in others too, that just removing the stressor, I'm really stressed out about my, you know, what name your favorite thing, whatever it is that we're stressed out about. There's something in my body that needs to happen differently than just not being exposed to that stressor anymore. You know, including, you know, I don't know the class. Right. If I've got a class that's a particularly, you know, tough, in terms of behavior model or whatever. And every day, it's a, it's a struggle going into that classroom in, in with, that, that group, if that's a high stress scenario, just not going into that classroom or not having that, that's not going to remove the stress that comes with that, that there is something further that needs to happen. And I have found for my own self that there are things that I can do that help me often. It is tempting for us to turn to an electronic device of some sort. Maybe I check out and watch a TV show, maybe I grab my phone and I scroll social media. This is not me, by the way, because I don't have social media.

But anyway, there's there's, you know, there's a temptation to go and grab some electronic device because they're so easy and so close. And while that may occasionally and I even stress occasionally, help

there is there are other things that help for me. You know, things like exercise.

Things like just being outside, taking a breath of fresh air, being in the sunshine or the rain,

being, you know.

Right. Just that that there's a, a time for quiet. I find that, taking time for just doesn't have to be quiet contemplation. You know, I'm not necessarily out there, doing huge, deep, breathing exercises in those things. Well, those things are very valuable, and I certainly wouldn't blame anyone for doing those things. You don't have to put pressure on that.

Oh, I've all of a sudden got to introduce a yoga practice. It's not that. It it's it's different. It's it's simpler than that. Right? It's just taking the time to go and do this. Do a little bit of, of, for lack of a better word, escape from the from the stress from that space. Getting outside is huge for me.

I don't know if that's huge for everyone, but it's huge for me. Exercise is big. And then, occasionally that very intentional, quiet breathing. Yeah.

00;16;04;15 - 00;16;15;22

Joanie

Yeah. And I think, I think what you're getting at, the bigger idea in terms of closing that stress cycle is having, having a repertoire of things you can try.

00;16;15;22 - 00;16;16;27

Curtis

Yes.

00;16;16;29 - 00;16;33;06

Joanie

I agree with you for for me, stepping outside and taking a deep breath is is always feeds my soul. And, you know, I live in Colorado. I live close to the mountains. I can literally step outside on my back porch

00;16;33;09 - 00;16;55;05

Curtis

I don't know if anybody else is jealous right now, but I am.

00;16;33;09 - 00;16;43;09

Joanie

Well I, I yes, it’s absolutely wonderful and I feel very spoiled.

End of Segment 1

00;16;43;10 - 00;16;55;09

Music break

Start of Segment 2

00;16;55;08 - 00;19;33;21

Joanie

so coming back to some of what the research says about closing that stress cycle and, you know, all of this is cited and explained well in that book that I mentioned that will also also link in the show notes.

But the things that you mentioned, I think all of us may know 1 or 2 things that we can do that help us personally, but I think it's important for folks to have like a bunch of ideas of things to try. So, you know, exercise is great for some people. That's going to mean, I'm going to go to the gym and I'm going to lift weights and I'm going to really, you know, physically exert myself.

And for other people, it might be I'm going to take a walk around the block. I'm going to, you know,

Yeah.

outside and move my body or ride a bike or, you know, whatever that is. I think things to the breathing is certainly a thing. And, and that does, but I think we might discount some of these other suggestions, like social interaction. So, you know, calling a friend, just having a conversation with a friend and, and even I would even say even more general for me personally, just going out into the world, like go walk around the mall or go to the

Yes.

down and get a coffee.

Just being around other people and that interaction with other people, helps so much when I'm feeling that stress cycle. And then, laughter I think is a huge part of it

Yes. Massive.

you are talking about just sitting down and scrolling social media, I give my husband a hard time, but he calls it he calls it is smooth brain time.

He's like, I just need some smooth brain time. So he'll take a little, you know, 20 minutes in the afternoon and whether it's go outside and sit on the back porch or it's it's raining here today so he'll, you know, sit on the couch and prop speed up and, give himself some smooth brain time. But for him, it's find something to make him laugh like that. It closes the stress cycle for him. And then some of the other things for me. And I'm only just listing off this to generate ideas for our listeners. I, I like to be creative. So cooking something, baking a batch of cookies or, you know, I like to paint or doodle or draw, like all of those things, you know, adult coloring books, all of those things are ways to help me manage my stress cycle.

When I'm feeling that that burnout idea coming on. So I love that we've kind of created this, you know, whole list of ideas and, I hope our listeners can tap into some of these and say, oh, yeah, I know the things that work for me. Or, and maybe have a couple of new ideas to try.

00;19;33;23 - 00;19;41;09

Curtis

No, I think that's huge. The laundry list of ideas and the or the toolbox, if you want to call it that, of ideas.

And and doing them not as, routine, doing them as intentional. I'm going to go try this thing and not always turning to the same thing is I think also, at least it helps me.

I can only speak to, to my own experience in that. But, you know, a walk only helps me so many times before. I also need to go and, you know, find something funny. I, I agree with your husband. There's a great deal of joy that comes and connection that comes with laughing and laughing with someone.

You know, my ten year old makes me laugh all the time.

And so, you know, he and I spend some time together and, and, and it's helpful. Right? There's a there's a release. There's an escape that happens, just because he's being goofy. And, and it gives me the chuckles, you know, I mean, because that just happens. I mean, it's fun. 

00;19;41;09 – 00;20;51;14

Joanie / Curtis

I love it, kids are great for that. Absolutely Kids are so great. Go spend some time around kids , that’s also good too. Maybe not your student kids, other kids. Or your students, my students always brought me a lot of joy.

Yes.

00;20;51;16 - 00;22;49;05

Joanie

Okay. I want to shift gears a little bit because I think, you know, one of the things around this topic, this this certainly isn't something that's not talked about in schools. And I think back in my own experience in the classroom and, you know, PD sessions at my school where, you know, somebody may come in or the principal or counselor, somebody runs something around managing our stress. And, you know, getting through hard times as an educator and I and they talk about, well, just remember here, why just come back to your purpose, you know, when you're feeling particularly frustrated or when you know something's gone wrong, you know, just go back to why you became a teacher. And I think there's something you can, you know, maybe hear the least of sarcasm in my voice here that, that's not always that's not always the great approach. It sort of feels like a platitude, but I do think there is something valuable to coming back to what anchors you. So I kind of redefine the what is your why to, a little bit stronger language. And I'm going to call it your durable purpose. So what's the thing that actually does resonate and re invigorate you in your, in that exhausted and worn out, phase. So I'm wondering for you what what was it? I know you've, you've shared often on the podcast that you had a nontraditional path to becoming a math teacher.

Sure.

Can you reflect back on what it was that drew you to do that?

What is it that made you make the decision to move from, what you had pursued your degree in as an engineer and move away from that as your profession and kind of into teaching math and, and when did that original driver stick with you that during the years that you were in the classroom, did it evolve? I'm just curious for, you know, what was your what was your sort of durable purpose for, branching into this field?

00;22;49;07 - 00;26;24;24

Curtis

Well, first I wanted to get married, but that was not my my. I needed a job, and my wife's, parents. So I had been substitute teaching, and the school district had asked me if I wanted to come and started teaching and start really actually teaching. Full time. I say that in a humorous way, because a we probably needed some a yes,

 A we needed some humor and B, I mean, it is a true statement.

But why was I even interested in. Why would they even approach me? Because I had expressed interest.

And I think the reason, I think the biggest reason was I found incredible joy in helping open students eyes to something that they didn't understand before.

I was not always successful in that.

And there was a, you know, a lot of times where that was frustrating to me, right. That I couldn't for whatever reason, I wasn't getting through. We weren't getting there. But then those moments when it happens and we've all had that where there's name that student who was struggling, but really trying. They're really, really trying. And they just weren't getting there. They just weren't getting there. And all of a sudden something happens and the synapses connect and there's all this stuff happening, right? The light bulb comes on. That moment is is unmatchable, out there. And so that experience, I think was one that that really kind of got me,

I also am full on nerd mode. I was, I, I did this interview a couple of weeks ago with the math, the math guru, the math therapy podcast.

Vanessa. And, I had I, I, I listened to it the other night with my wife, and then I sent it to my brother, and he was talking to me. But this idea of he goes, man, he goes, Kurt, I'm just not a math person. I just don't find joy in it anymore. And I said, but we got to help you find curiosity.

We got to help you find just that, this, that one little thing of exploration. Just that one little thing that makes you go, Why is that? Once you connect to that, if you can connect to that, it. I mean, it opens up so many doors. And so those those are really the reasons that maybe were my why.

Because for me, and I love your durable purpose, I'm going to try to use that language more, because, yeah, finding my wife feels a little different. Finding my durable purpose. I really like this because it that means it stands up against, the pressures and times and, you know, all these, these things that come against it.

But I get so excited about being able to help students find that curiosity piece. And what's that little thing that that just makes them go? And the cool thing for me is that even when it doesn't connect for them. And I know this sounds selfish, but even when it doesn't connect for them, there's a little bit of joy for me in just that rediscovering re showing re talking about this thing, and the amount of joy that I can have with it then can like there is at least something that connects to the students, right?

I mean, if I'm having fun, at least they can have fun noticing that I'm having fun, right? Like there's something to that.

00;26;24;27 - 00;29;17;24

Joanie

That's absolutely a real thing. And I think having that enthusiasm for your content area is it rubs off on students, even if they don’t feel the same passion, there is an energy created by that enthusiasm.

I actually heard similar feedback from my students when I was in the classroom too, that I just I would get so excited about things that that they'd be like, well, I couldn't help but get excited too, because you were so excited.

Exactly, exactly.

and I like that. And and I think this idea of durable purpose, like thinking about durable purpose beyond just thinking about your why for, you know, I my classroom teaching experience spanned, a lot of years. And I started teaching before kind of the age of accountability. Like I remember when the no Child Left Behind that came in, and I remember sitting in a all staff meeting where our principal said, hey, we're going to have this state testing that, you know, now we're on. I'll be accountable for, and it's going to, you know, schools are going to be raided and all of this stuff. So I remember I was a classroom teacher before that age

Yeah, yeah.

you know, and I think this is especially true for math teachers because math is a tested area. And we can open up. You know, we can look at any news feed on any day of the week and see concern about, you know, low math scores in our country. And that can't help but be a stressor on, math educators, right? We feel responsible for how our students perform. So I think there there is a lot of danger in defining our effectiveness in terms of, how our students do on tests or how many of our students, you know, are successful in the next course. And I'm not suggesting that those things aren't important because they are. But are they durable? Purpose. Material? You know, I feel like, I feel like maybe going a little bit deeper and beyond just the measurability of our effectiveness as teachers is, is one of the important components of durable purpose. So, I want to just circle back on what you talked about and also just reflect on what I know about you as an educator and a person, because I think your durable purpose is about what you describe, that sharing your enthusiasm for learning and, you know who you are as a teacher.

You're who you are as a person. Criticism is about fostering curiosity and exploration in other people. And for me, like, I can just very easily define your durable purpose as those things. Just your enthusiasm, excitement, and your energy around curiosity and exploration. So I, I just think that's a perfect little example. Durable purpose.

00;29;17;26 - 00;32;16;28

Curtis

I mean, I it is it is what keeps it going for me. You know, and I think that's, I think that's a, a challenge for all of us to, to think about because we can talk about and I even maybe and as we're talking about this, I'm starting to separate the y part from the durable purpose part.

So, and I don't know if this goes in your conference session or not. So, you know, you can, do with this as as you may, but I'm thinking about the separating the y, the y part. We really are. Most of us who are educators, math educators, but educators in general are there because we intend to improve students well-being.

We intend to, to generate their ability to learn, their, knowledge of the world and, you know, turn them, you know, help them become knowledgeable and effective and, and contributing citizens to society. Right. All of the big words that we put in vision statements and all of those things, those are true. And those are the Y's that we do these things. But I think durable purpose is a level closer to me as a person, which is how how do I keep going

When that y is hard to see me impacting? How do I keep going whenever I'm not seeing that y that I'm here?

Keep, keep being the thing that I'm doing? Like, I can't see it happening.

I'm starting to get to this burnout stage that we were talking about at the beginning of the podcast, because I'm not seeing it. It's a long way. Every year I'm doing the same thing. It's the same old stuff, all the same stories, different batch of students and we're getting to the same level of frustration. I know why I want to do this, but I'm not seeing it happen this year. How do I keep that durable purpose and, and it's different for everyone. Your durable purpose is different from mine. I think, you know, I'm passionate just about curiosity and learning and, and and really the fun patterns and things that are, that are there in math. I just find it entertaining. Other people don't, but they still find math important. They still find math good, and and they're good math teachers, and they know their content well. They have a different durable purpose.

But I think that's I think that's what you're talking about. Joanie, is this this idea of how do I keep on going? Certainly there's ways I can I can relieve the stressors. Certainly. There's ways I can deal with.

We went through the list of of things, items that I can try, but I think redefining and finding and thinking about this durable purpose, that's important.

00;32;17;05 - 00;32;55;25

Joanie

Yeah I do too. And I think adding like that becomes another one of those ways to close the stress cycle or even what do I do after I've closed the stress cycle.

Yeah. Yeah.

I need to you know, pick myself up and move on. And again, being able to come back to what really matters to me and what are my

what what's what is that core foundation of why I'm doing what I'm doing. So I think that's really important. And and again, I think we've done a nice job of explaining beyond the why.

End of Segment 2

00;32;43;17 - 00;32;55;10

Music break

Start of Segment 3

00;32;55;28 - 00;35;49;20

Joanie

So the, the other piece I want to bring into this and, maybe kind of closing out our conversation today is the importance of other people, and especially our network of other educators and other professionals that we bring in to help us manage this, because honestly, there there is no one like another educator to understand the experience of being an educator.

And again, talking about my son and daughter in law, you know, when my kids were little, I have two boys, and my husband always had great connection with them in terms of sports and video games and, you know, things that boys care about. And I can remember him just having hours and hours and hours of conversation that I never really felt a part of.

I didn't play the video games and they played and I didn't know what they were talking about. So it was it was this really cool connection that they had, but also their own secret language. And when my younger son, Logan became a teacher, he and I started to have teacher conversations. And I remember my husband Jeff saying, oh, I get what you're going through that. And because now when you and Logan start talking about teaching, I like, I can't keep up. I don't have don't have the connection to bring to that conversation. So I know that even, you know, being able to talk to my son about his classroom experiences as a, as a elementary school music teacher, which is far from my experience as a high school math teacher. But that connection in that community is really, really important. So,

in this conference session I'm planning, I want to ask people to think about who's in that circle of sustainability for them, who's in their network. That can be the people that they turn to, to engage with, to help close their stress cycles, to talk about their durable purpose, just to manage, you know, the the activities and the stressors that come every day with being a classroom teacher and thinking about, you know, who are the people in my immediate vicinity, who's the teacher next door? Or the person I share an office with? Thinking about, you know, maybe other people in my school building that might not be, you know, immediately adjacent to me, but teachers in another department at a high school or maybe there's administration or coaches or counselors or somebody else that you can tap into. And then kind of the third level is thinking out beyond your school and professional networks that come from professional organizations at the state level or at the national level, or even, you know, social media platforms where you can connect with other educators.

So, talk to me a little bit about your thinking and ideas around this building, this network to surround you, and what role does that play, and where can people go to start thinking about their network or building out their network if they don't feel like they have that? Yeah.

00;35;49;22 - 00;40;54;12

Curtis

Yeah. I was while you were talking about this and describing it, I was thinking about, you know, my own personal experience in the classroom.

And I think you and I both kind of had similar experiences, although I think maybe the high school I was at was a little bit larger than the place you were at. But, you know, I had there were, 30, 35 of us, I think, in the math department at my high school. We had a big school. And so I had a lot of opportunity for connection to math teachers at my school talking, you know, so I had plenty of opportunity. And not a lot of people have that opportunity, I think. I don't think that that is necessarily, to be expected that you have that many people around you professionally in your department that you can relate to. That said, I do think there is some value in thinking about what, that professional connection actually looks like you know, is it just shared, interest in, what we're doing, what we're trying to do, with the students that we have in our classroom. Maybe it is the music teacher or the band teachers.

Maybe there's, folks in the science department that you can connect to. You and so finding those people that, connect. But there is a thing, and I don't know how to I don't know how to describe it, but they talk about it in sports all the time. That idea of of, connection and, unity and, oh, man. What is the word that they use? They use it all the time and they talk about it. About how how guys, they just are on the same page. Right? And there's a, there's a level of being able to be on the same page with people that really kind of feeds your soul. And then you go back to your classroom and you're able to do this thing.

So I think there is a level of importance of finding social networks where that can happen. Right. And, and specifically around education, I think, being able to find that either at your school, thinking about those people at your school that you can that you can get to that,

that point with. But then you ask the question, okay, so maybe I'm at a smaller school, maybe I'm at a school where, you know, just frankly, personally, I, I just they're I just haven't connected with these people.

Around here, there are places there are networks available to folks. The first place I would, consider is becoming a member, a professional member of one of the organizations such as NCTM.

And looking at that network of people and starting to get connected, I've seen it happen. I watch the, the my n CTM blog post. I get the little, email every day, the digest every day. And I've seen it happen where folks are sharing their thoughts on different things and they, they there's like a little thing where they don't even have to say it. You just know they're connecting offline, right? That there's another they're having a discussion or they've sent an email, and they've said, hey, you know, let's have this discussion because and they're typically not from the same part of the country, the typically not even necessarily teaching the same sort of thing.

But there's just enough of a level of interest in some certain type of mathematics or some certain type of a problem set or some certain thing that they've been able to, to make connections. So I think that's another,

place for networking. I think there are plenty of social media opportunities for this. You know, whether it be one of those, spaces in Facebook. I know that we even t has their own, Facebook community where teachers have joined that community. And they find fellow educators with fellow interests and tools that they use in classes that they teach. So those are those are the places that come to my mind in terms of answering the question of, can I get connected to a group of people and maybe help get that professional connection?

In the event that I don't have folks in my school or in my, neighboring schools district that I can connect well with, I know for me, when I was in the classroom, you know, there was a group of of, math teachers that we we connected well together, and we, we were able to to share, all across.

But then there was also across the, the, across the district. I had, pretty good access to, to a number of, of stats teachers. I was the only stat teacher at my school. Right. But then, you know, there were people across the community that I was able to connect with and, and talk about things,

from that regard, what about for you?

What are what are some of those things when you think about that professional connection and you realize how much it matters, where did you turn for those kinds of things?

00;40;54;14 - 00;44;03;05

Joanie

Well I think, I think my experiences is similar to yours. I for the most part in my career, I worked in large departments, 2020 to 25, maybe not as big as ours, but 20 to 25 other teachers. But there was a there was a period of about six years where, I was living and working in New Jersey and a department of six.

So it was much, much different. And, yeah, I felt what you were describing is like, felt more isolated. I was the only teacher teaching my content area. And at that time, there wasn't so much that was before social media because I'm a dinosaur. But, you know, one of the things that I tapped into were conferences, and I think this is maybe even more so now, you talked about joining one of those professional organizations like NTM or a state affiliate of NCT.

I think a lot of I think almost every state has a math teacher organization that teachers

For sure. For sure.

those don't even have any membership fee associated with them, or a very low membership fee associated with them. But there are so many opportunities in our digital age, right now for, an individual to engage in professional learning opportunities and those can be things like a webinar, you know, so maybe you just

Huge.

NTM webinars. And when you're on a webinar, you see other people chatting in the chat box, right? And feeling that connection to other educators that are engaging with the same thing that you are. So, you know, for me, and I think this maybe circles back to to my durable purpose is, you know, one of kind of my driving forces around being an educator is my own personal desire for continual learning. Like, I just love to learn and I love to explore new ideas and, you know, read about them and talk to other people about them and listen to other people present about them and, you know, shape them into me, add them into my belief about teaching and learning. So for me, when I think of how many opportunities I've had to expand my professional network by going to a learning experience and engaging in that learning process with other educators and finding other educators who are as interested in learning about this idea as I am now. We already have a natural connection and something to talk about. So, you know that the number of people that I have learned that I have met through professional learning opportunities, who have then become a really, really important part of my social and professional network is just astounding. So, yeah, I would, I would echo I would echo all of those things as finding your people and, and even again, back to the conversations that I have with my son and daughter in law who both teach music, but we can still share,

you know, the, the challenges and support one another and in what it means to be an educator, even if our content area is really different. So I would encourage folks to think, even beyond math teachers, there are certainly some unique challenges of being a math teacher, but just connecting with any other, any other educator who sort of gets it, I think that makes a big difference.

00;44;03;05 - 00;45;24;17

Curtis

100%. 100%. So we've been talking a lot about those things that talk about, I don't know, connection. How do I deal with, you know, closing that stressor gap? Closing that stress cycle, you know, going from stressor to release and then. Okay, so now what, that sort of thing. We've talked a little bit about the tools in our toolbox for doing that. But I do think that there's maybe an action oftentimes we don't necessarily give our, our listeners an action other than just, you know, think. But I think here today, maybe there's something that we can do. And that is to maybe push, push our listeners and maybe ourselvesto take a step in the next, 30 days.

So if there was some sort of a commitment, thinking about your professional community journey,

and thinking about what, what the next 30 days hold for you, what sort of commitment would you maybe make? And then I'm going to ask the same question to our listeners to think about the next 30 days. What do they hold for you? And, and think about is there a connection or a step that you can take towards connection in the next 30 days and, and maybe, let us know what you intend to do.

00;45;24;19 - 00;47;07;15

Joanie

I love that, Curtis. I love the idea of giving a challenge and even, you know, as we record our next episode for our May broadcast, we can kind of, you know, check in on that and ask folks to reflect back. I love it.

I’m really wanting to nail down, like, can I really name my durable purpose in a way of, you know, can I write it on an index card that I, you know, put on my, my computer monitor and look at every day?

So really fleshing out that idea of what my durable purpose is,

so that I can have that as an anchor when I think the key is having that available before I need it, rather than feeling like I have to come up with it in the moment.

Yeah.

then for me, my durable purpose is my door to my professional network and expanding my network.

So thinking about, I think if I can put pen to paper about this is my durable purpose statement in a way that I feel like really reflects and gets to the heart of who I am as a math educator, then trying to think about ways that I have access to other people who share that passion and that interest.

So thinking about, you know, I'm going to be attending a couple of conferences in the next 30 days. I'm going to have opportunity to do a couple of webinars with some of my other, educator network. So thinking about looking specifically for a person that I can connect with around my durable purpose as a way for us to share a connection and, and build that person as an additional member of my, of my network.

How about you? What are your thoughts about growing your network or, rising to that 30 day challenge yourself?

00;47;07;18 - 00;48;20;19

Curtis

So I'm one step ahead of what you just said, because you did such a great job of defining what my durable purpose is. Earlier in this episode, I was like, man, this is you did. I might you did my homework for me,

on that part, journey because it really, I think you hit the nail on the head when you were describing what it is that drives me, for, for that durable purpose thing.

Right? I mean, I think there's still a y that's, that's higher than that. But then my durable purpose, part of this. So where I think I can go and what I think I would like to, I don't know, somehow challenge my own self is,

thinking about finding a person or persons which share that durable purpose similar to what you were describing that I can learn from.

Because part of my what, you know, and that sounds man, that didn't sound the way I intended it to. I want to go and learn from some people. And I want to go and explore mathematics at a deeper level and in some, some way.

I have some opportunities with, projects that I'm working on.

 So maybe that's, a space for me to expand.

00;48;20;21 - 00;48;23;26

Joanie

I love that.

00;48;23;29 - 00;48;43;19

Joanie Outro

Well, that's it for this time. Be sure to check the show notes for the resources we mentioned and others you might want to explore. We would love to hear your feedback and your suggestions for future topics. And if you're enjoying learning with us, consider leaving a review to help others find us and share the podcast with a fellow math educator.

See you next time!