00;00;02;02 - 00;00;29;20

Joanie intro

In today's episode of Room to Grow, Curtis and I reflect on something we used to think that we now think differently about. We each chose our own topic, but within the conversation, we hope you'll see that we can all embrace the room we have to grow by reflecting, being willing to learn something new and taking steps in a new direction to help form new beliefs that benefit even more students in their learning of mathematics.

So let's get growing.

00;00;32;00 - 00;01;55;27

Curtis

Well, Joanie, I am excited for today. And we have another opportunity to record the Room to Grow podcast. We've been chatting a little bit here before the podcast, and I'm excited to hear the things that, that we're going to talk about. So today we're, we're really addressing we've kind of been going through and thinking about our, our own selves and the name of our podcast Room to Grow and thinking about how we've maybe grown over the past.

I guess now, six years, five and a half years that we've been doing this, this podcast together and, thought it might be an interesting episode to do, sort of a reflection on. I used to think something and now I think something. And here are some reasons why. And so we're going to try to to have that be a podcast.

It's going to be a little bit different. It's just going to be yours and my thinking. But really the intent, I think for this podcast, for our listeners, is, is to then take, take what Joni and I have reflected upon and, and think about in your own practice. Are there some things in the past several years that you have maybe changed about the way you think and changed about the way you teach, changed about the way you interact with students or parents or, even the mathematics, content itself. And, you know, think about those things. It's always good to reflect. And, so this should be a good episode for contemplation.

00;01;56;09 - 00;04;03;10

Joanie

Yeah, I agree, and I want to just add a little flavor to that, Curtis, because I think that the other thing we're trying to do, or at least where I'm coming from, in, in bringing this as a topic for us to discuss on the podcast, is to consider the bigger picture of what does it, what does it really take to to change, to make a change? You know, how is it that we go through the process of being in a habit or doing something that, you know, is is what we do is

what comes naturally to then doing something differently, like what all goes into doing that? Because, you know, certainly across both of our vast experiences in the realm of math education, we've seen changes come. And, you know, I, I think we each personally too have seen individual teachers change and change their mind and change their practice. And so, the ability for us to take a step back and reflect on, you know, what is that about?

Like what how how does that actually happen? Rather than just, you know, when we're working through day to day and we make a change and, you know, again, typically that's going to happen slowly and over time. And, you know, with finer and finer nuance as we, as we work on changing something, but taking a moment to like, step back and say, oh, you know, take a look at how far, how far I've come. And so, yeah, I would agree with you that I hope this although you and I kind of have our little to specific things we're going to talk through in terms of our own personal experience today, what I hope will do is generate the opportunity for our listeners to think back on, you know, what's something I really believe now that I maybe didn't believe years ago, or what's something I do or that I find effective, that I didn't or didn't do or didn't consider years ago.

And think about that journey, because I think as we as we think ahead then into the future, the whole purpose of reflecting is to have that impact go forward. Right? So if by reflecting and thinking about what the journey for change is, then I can be more intentional about facilitating the change I want to have happen. 

00;04;17;18 - 00;04;43;07

Curtis

Oh yeah, I love the fact that your focus in and I, I'm I'm glad to hear that the focus in on on like, let's think about the change that I want to be able to have even thinking about this.

Now are there are there areas that maybe I, I'm am I open to questioning or thinking about, or are there are there things now that maybe I'm willing to learn? And I think that's, you know, lifelong learners, right? Most educators, when we talk about this, we think about most of our listeners. We're lifelong learners. We always are intending to, to be learning and growing. And so, yeah, I'm excited for this.

00;04;43 ;07 - 00;04;55;09

Joanie / Curtis

Yeah. I am to. So, so, Joni. Yeah. Go ahead. What have you been thinking about? 

00;04;55;09 - 00;05;54;21

Joanie

I was I was going to ask you to start, but I'm happy to start to like I as I've reflected for preparation for this episode, I think that I've thought a lot about my own teaching practice, and particularly at the very beginning of my career. And, and, and actually, I think I'll come out in this conversation that I think my, my thinking and my beliefs and the attitudes that I want to surface as the I used to think part, actually even goes back to before I was a teacher. So I think maybe the big bucket on what I would say. I've changed my mind about is what is mathematics like?

What do we mean when we say we want students to learn mathematics? Like what even is that? And it feels like that should be an easy thing. Like, of course everybody in the universe knows what mathematics is. And when I say I want to teach students to be successful with mathematics, everybody knows what I mean. But, I think that I have actually shifted beyond thinking about what that what that actually is.

00;05;54;23 - 00;06;54;18

Curtis

That's an interesting. That's cool. That's a really cool, really cool topic. I'm interesting interested to hear, your kind of unfolding of that. But when you mentioned that idea of what is mathematics, there's so many things that come to mind. And I think there are many things that come to mind for our listeners and our listeners who are educators versus, you know, people in, in general society and in common in common culture, like thinking about, what is mathematics and what does that mean to my son, who is a student in elementary school?

Versus what is mathematics mean to my wife who's a preschool teacher, or what is mathematics to, my dad, who's a retired power line power, poll worker, like, you know, thinking about what is mathematics and what does that mean? Yeah. Even your audience. Yeah. Impact's a little bit about. About what? That what that means. 

00;07;00;18 - 00;08;25;19

Joanie

100%. And I think it's also shaped by what these bigger systems tell us what mathematics is, right? Like, so I totally agree with you that like for the different audiences, what does that mean for somebody who's a math educator is very different than what it means for somebody who's in a different profession where mathematics means something else to them. But I also think even within our profession, textbooks tell us something about what mathematics is or standards tell us something about what mathematics is.

Assessments tell us something about what mathematics is. And those are all things that directly impact a classroom teacher. Like you have to pay attention to those things as an educator. So not just I think this is part of why this is the topic that I kind of have glommed on to for this conversation, Curt, is that I need to I need to step back from all of those external influences telling me what mathematics is and really know for myself, what is it for me? And then and then how does that you know, why is it that? Why do I think that's important for it to mean that to my students? And then how do I situate that when there are standards and textbooks and assessments that may not be perfectly aligned to that? How do I how do I reference while so. Yeah, so that's my big topic. So maybe before I start going into mine you can share what your big topic is.

00;08;25;20 - 00;10;08;02

Curtis

I'll give a little bit of a preview, of what I was thinking about. So, I also was thinking about this last night and, and today coming in, driving into the office. And I was really struggling, to be honest. I'll just, just I'm going to put that out there. Not to say that I haven't grown and not to say that, I am closed minded to growth. I think, I hope that, I've shown that I'm willing to do those things, but there was nothing that I just, I went, oh, okay, I could talk a little bit about what I think, instruction looks like and how that's changed a little bit.

I could talk a little bit about my thinking of the role of technology, because I think that's, I think that's a place where I've grown and I've. I've kind of I've thought a little bit about, that differently, than when I was teaching and even maybe before when I was teaching, but when I was actually a student.

But and related to the technology tip, I actually think, I'm going to talk a little bit about artificial intelligence and AI, and I know that's, I used to think like three months ago, and I think now I'm talking about ten years plus. You're talking about this. It's it's all good. We can change our minds in any amount of time. We can change our minds in, in, in short periods of time. But, I've just recently been been, dabbling a little bit in AI and what its role could possibly be. And so I'll be happy to share a little bit about what I used to think and what I'm thinking. Now.

00;10;09;03 - 00;11;25;12

Joanie

I really love that. I'm anxious to hear both, both what you used to think and now think and also what, what changed your mind and what shifted your thinking.

So. Well, let me go back. Let me go back to my early teaching days and kind of how I thought about what mathematics is and how that played out in my classroom. So I would say when I tried to, like, write a sentence for, you know, for my show, my notes for this, episode, I wrote that I used to think that math is the ability to quickly, accurately, and efficiently complete computations and procedures to get answers.

And that conceptual understanding would be a natural result of being able to do that over and over again, accurately. Can you can you say that again? I know I will, you read it. And the ability to quickly, accurately and efficiently complete computations and procedures to get answers right. So finding answers and then being able to do that over and over again with different problems and, you know, over a period of time that that would lead to conceptual understanding of what was happening mathematically. That's what I used to believe.

00;11;25;12 - 00;11;55;04

Curtis

Okay, okay. And I could see that, I mean, that's that's kind of how we were taught, right? Yeah. For sure that we were given many opportunities to see problems of different varieties and different styles and, lots of practice. Yep. Doing each of those things. But, you know, to Pam Harris's point, whenever she we, we were not, being exposed to that. There's a shark in there somewhere.

00;11;58;04 - 00;12;14;11

Joanie / Curtis / Joanie

Yeah, well, you're giving away my punchline a little bit there. Oh, sorry. Yeah. No, it's good, it's good. Because, you know, like I said, I think that as I reflect back on this, this is definitely how I taught for, you know, a good chunk of my career. And just to, you know, be transparent.

00;12;14;11 - 00;16;47;15

Joanie

I started in the classroom in 1989. So there wasn't, you know, No Child Left Behind didn't wasn't around then there wasn't this, accountability assessment scenario that there is now. There wasn't, let's look at data achievement data and break it down by demographic groups and analyze it and talk about what we're doing. Like, that wasn't a part of my early teaching days.

I think we gave like the Iowa Basic Skills test to every kid at some point. But in my early career, there wasn't this pressure to prepare my kids for some exam, maybe for the SAT, right? Or maybe for, AP exams. But there wasn't the the situation that we have now where there is this accountability, there is this pressure, there is this very public measurement of how our kids learning and and oftentimes, direct finger pointing back to the teacher and the classroom instruction as the reason for students achievement or lack of achievement.

And I just want to take a minute to say, I'm taking the time to talk through that and reveal my age. But for a reason, because I think that the pressure that teachers face now and, and I, you know, it was during the course of my career that high stakes assessment became a part of my world. And I certainly can reflect on how my teaching changed.

00;13;44;27 - 00;14;07;05

Unknown

High stakes assessments are a big part of what drove that approach that, you know, in order for students to perform well, and then in order for me to be judged and viewed as a teacher as effective, I needed to ensure that my students performed well on those tests and in general, not in every case, but in most cases.

00;14;07;05 - 00;14;35;26

Unknown

And as an overarching theme, I think those high stakes assessments focus much, much more on the student's ability to accurately find answers than than students understanding of understanding of math. So maybe this is a good time to shift to. That's what I used to think, that being able to quickly, accurately, and efficiently find answers was what math was.

00;14;35;26 - 00;14;59;05

Unknown

And and I want to add on that conceptual understanding was important. I knew it was important even early in my career, but I believed that it would come as a result of being efficient and accurate and quick with procedures and getting correct answers that that would lead to conceptual understanding. What I believe now, I can say a whole lot more succinctly.

00;14;59;07 - 00;15;22;02

Unknown

And for me now, sense making and reasoning is the most important thing in mathematics, that students can make sense and can reason. And to me, that is way, way more important than correct answers. I want to share a quick anecdote. I have a friend who is going to be participating in a panel discussion, kind of outside of the realm of mathematics education.

00;15;22;02 - 00;15;48;16

Unknown

And the person facilitating the panel, they have my friend as as kind of a mathematics education expert and then, mathematician, you know, somebody kind of more in the field of mathematics outside of schooling. And the panel facilitator used generative AI to say what questions should I ask so that my two panelists might disagree on? Because that creates more interesting discussion.

Right. And the panelist shared with my friend and the other panelists that I predicted that they would have different answers to this question. Would you rather students are able to get correct answers in mathematics without being able to estimate? Or would you rather they can estimate without being able to get correct answers? And the I said the mathematics education person is going to prefer that students get correct answers.

The mathematician is going to prefer that students be able to estimate. And my friend said no, I would much rather students be able to estimate and reason and make sense than be computationally accurate. So I just thought that was really interesting. And that, again, that is part of what has helped me shape and and solidify and be able to articulate what I think is most important about mathematics, and that is sense making and reasoning.

End of Segment 1

00;16;47;08 - 00;16;58;20

Music break

Start of Segment 2

00;16;59;02 - 00;20;11;27

Curtis

You said, that you believed beforehand that, by a student becoming and you. I don't think you use this word fluent, but if I use more words to say that, though. Yeah, I think but by effectively by a student becoming fluent in a certain problem style or a certain problem thing, that there would be a conceptual understanding would come with that fluency, and I would only maybe because I think that's where I ended up. So, so just to. Right. Because trying to reflect. So I was in I was in the classroom, at the time that you were, teaching. Yeah. So I was, I was in my I was potentially one of your students, right? Yeah. So thinking about this and I, I don't bring that up just for I'm not making an age coming up. This thing that I could I could have been one of your students. So I was in that era where high stakes testing was becoming a thing, but it wasn't where I was. We didn't have some sort of graduation requirement. High stakes exam type, happening for me when I was graduating high school. But I do believe that I became fluent. I do believe that that I was fluent in, in the execution of those procedures and understandings. But I, I think what that did for me was give me the opportunity. Yeah, for conceptual understanding. But the conceptual understanding didn't come until I asked questions, until I tried to make my own connections, tried to tried to figure out why things work, the way they work, and why there were patterns where there were patterns.

And that only happened because I began to care about why there were patterns and why there were. And I was always interested in mathematics. I always found it interesting. But I've I have grown up a lot in the past. 15 or 20 years. And I have I have become a lot more curious about why does math work the way that this works.

And this is entirely fascinating, this world of mathematics. And so I just I only put that out there to ask the question, like, I think what you're driving at is super important because the earlier I can get students to have the curiosity and the the excitement about this beautiful field of mathematics that is far, far more than just a bunch of procedures and answers, but really, a way to reason about the way the world works, you know?

And that's   a pretty high level statement there. Right? But it's the truth that mathematics is a great way to reason about the way the world works. And the earlier we can get students to see that that's possible, the more exciting mathematics and the learning of mathematics can become.

 00;20;11;27 - 00;20;31;08

Joanie

Agree, and the more willing they are to engage in it.

Yeah. Yeah. 

Right. Okay. I want to put a pause on my topic and come back to your topic. So tell me, what is it that you used to believe or used to think about AI and AI's role in education? Versus what is it that you now think? 

00;20;32;26 - 00;22;18;25

Curtis

So, I was an early rejector. There's probably a far fancier word than that.

But not just a skeptic, but like a no way, like a this is just we're not. Yeah. Like the, the idea of of looking at, a bunch of ones and zeros stored in a chip somewhere being, having the capability of being, trainable and responding to general, you know, generalized questions. There was just something that I was closed minded about, and I don't mean that three months ago.

I know I mentioned that earlier, this probably significantly or exaggerating a little bit there, but but really my first opinion on this and when I started thinking about, you know, the, the opportunity for, an artificial intelligence tool to be instructive and be able to be reactive and be able to practice Socratic methods, you know, these kinds of things that that was something that just superseded what I believed was possible.

Right. And I didn't see that, students having interaction with that sort of a thing was possible or even would be a good thing, right? If anything, they would potentially be led down some wrong path. And I just put that out there, just being open and vulnerable, with our listeners. Okay. So that was where I kind of came into can I came into this space.

00;22;18;25 - 00;23;04;22

Joanie

Can I just ask you to elaborate a little bit on what was it that made you feel that way? Can you identify it? Was it just, like your internal reaction to what you were hearing about? I was it the limited understanding of what it was and how it worked? Like, can you can you reflect now back on.

Yes. What contributed to you feeling like, first of all, I don't believe that this can do what it's being described as being able to do. And second of all, I don't know if I think it's a good idea for this to be something that students engage with. What contributed to that, those feelings?

00;23;02;24 - 00;26;11;12

Curtis

So, the I'll answer the second one first. I was very nervous. So, thinking about the train ability of these things and kind of this idea of machine learning and the fact that you can, you know, you get in there and you teach it responses and you teach it, about things. The fact that there was computers that were learning was a little bit kind of, out there for me.

But the fact that that it's possible. And where were they getting that information? Was my was my kind of initial like, wait a minute. What what what are we doing here and how are we actually training those things? So there was a lack of trust of of the source. But then I think, there was also a lack of, of familiarity with, and just in my own self. Right. What what is this? What was it? What is, going on there? There was a lack of familiarity with what was what artificial intelligence I actually meant. And that was experientially, frankly, hadn't spent any time really doing it, just mostly listening to what people were saying and trying to think about, okay, these people are saying this is how it's working. And just that was my own gut reaction. But I will say this, that was what I used to think. I have since started to dabble a little bit, first with just a couple of little projects and asking, I treating AI more like an intern? A little bit. And I still think that that's a, a really good way to kind of interact with artificial intelligence tools.

And I, I use that that word specifically right there, tools for helping us do the things that we want to do. But I've, I started playing with it that way. And, and now, I'm experimenting even more and I'm, I'm beginning to open up to the idea that there are significant opportunities, in mathematics education. Yeah, in just in general education for these tools to do some pretty interesting things.

And, and for students to be able to interact with them in positive ways, always with the guardrails. And I'll never, I don't think, ever change that. That perspective. But I do think that there are significant opportunities now just in my own dabbling, of trying to trying to create and I, I, I'll try not to use any specific AI tools that I'm using or even some of the projects that I'm working on trying to do this, but I, I just am thinking about trying to train.

So. Right. The if you're afraid of something or if you think something won't work, go try it for a little bit. Yeah. And try to experiment with it and test it out. And I've been I've been very surprised, with the abilities of these tools to, to turn my opinions on their heads. 

00;26;11;12 - 00;27;36;04

Joanie

Well, and I love that that's where you just went, because, when you were talking about when I pressed you on, why did you have those initial thoughts? I jotted down something that you said, and you talked about a lack of familiarity and a lack of personal interaction with this thing. Right? Like you, you needed to you felt that lack of trust. You felt that skepticism. You felt that concern. But at the same time, now looking back, you can acknowledge that that was that. You just there was stuff you didn't know.

Yeah. And don't know what you don't know. Yes. And it could be that you didn't know because it wasn't knowable then. Or it could be that you didn't know because you hadn't had the opportunity to know. But I just want to call that out. And again, back to framing why we're having this conversation on the podcast today.

I think thinking back and recognizing that often times our attitudes are because we're we're missing some information and there's an open door for us to have learning happen and learning and letting that door be open. Being willing to take in new information is the key to being able to make change and change. Our minds in particular. So I just I think that about as a as a crucial key factor here.

End of Segment 2

00;27;36;17 - 00;27;48;10

Music break

Start of Segment 3

00;27;48;15 - 00;28;37;13

Curtis

So, we started the podcast by identifying the name, of our podcast. We started the topic today by identifying that you know, you and I have had growth opportunities. Yeah, over the course of our careers. Me over it. Yeah. I mean, it is we have grown and because the reason we've been able to do those things, has been what you just said. Yeah, there's we were either unfamiliar or maybe there was a lack of information or lack of opportunity, but taking the time to go and investigate, taking the time to go and learn, lifelong learning and openness to that has allowed us to, to grow and change. 

00;28;38;02 - 00;33;26;13

Joanie

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, I, I want to shift back to my topic and shift the conversation into what changed my mind.

Like what were the so what were the factors and what was the process. And you know, for me, I go back I went back intentionally to 1989. It was a there were a lot of years where I believed what I believed about what mathematics was. But the shift to what I believe now was, was fairly gradual. And it took a lot of time not only for me to shift my thinking, but also for me to be able to articulate that shift in my thinking.

And even, you know, you mentioned Pam Harris and I have Pam Harris down in my notes as one of the things that helped me change my mind. Our conversation with Pam Harris, which was 6 or 7 months ago, like that, as recent as that. So the first thing that that made me change my mind about, particularly that idea around fluency leading to conceptual understanding, I really did believe that. And similar to how you, you know, followed up with your reflection on my comments earlier because that's what happened for me. I yeah, I learned to find answers. I learned to recognize patterns. I was good at it. I was accurate most of the time, and the conceptual understanding came. It it revealed itself to me. That's a whole other podcast episode and how that happened.

But when I met my husband, Jeff, in college, he did not have a good self-identity around mathematics. He did not think of himself as successful at math. And through the course of our relationship, I was a math major in college, and through the course of our conversations about math, I came to believe that he didn't feel successful at math because he didn't feel successful at procedures. 

That ability to quickly, accurately, and efficiently get answers and know what to do was not something that came to him, but because I was broadening my own understanding, I could ask him more conceptually based questions, and I realized that he really has solid, incredible math understanding, but didn't believe he did because he wasn't good at computing. And it made me think about how many students sitting in my classes are just like Jeff, who think I'm not getting the answers as quick as everybody else.

I'm not good at this. And that belief is shutting down their opportunity to see the the concepts and to recognize the value in their sense making and understanding, because there is an opportunity. There wasn't in my early teaching days, there was an opportunity for reasoning and sense making about the mathematics to be elevated as something to celebrate. And I'm I'm going to go quickly through some of this because I want to reflect on what changed your mind around AI.

But as I learned more, there's a book called Adding it Up absolutely contributed to that. When the Common Core came out and Student Achievement Partners gave us the shifts in instruction for for math of Common Core, that contributed to my understanding principles to actions and Ktm's publication gave me the language to start to elevate what I believed, and that was that reasoning and sense making were at the heart of really, truly understanding mathematics.

And then, of course, as our longtime listeners have heard me often talk about my nephew Andrew, and to actually watch the experience of starting to work with Andrew Andrew when he was nine years old and believed he wasn't good at math because he wasn't as fast with his multiplication facts as his classmates. And now to see Andrew in high school in honors math and being so successful that he doesn't call me for tutoring anymore, because he knows he can count on his own sense making and his own reasoning and how to leverage that, to be able to be successful in school mathematics.

And then just finally, Pam Harris and and Pam's calling out of it's possible to do the procedures and not understand the math. And is that what we want? That's not what I want. I want kids to understand the math, and especially not to I maybe this could be a transition back to you. In our day and age, there are lots of resources that can get answers much more quickly than even the most fluent student can.

So I feel like preparing kids for the future, for their future is not going to be a focus on computation, or right answers. It's going to be a focus on reasoning and sense making. 

00;33;26;26 - 00;34;43;07

Curtis

And I think that's a perfect, thing to transition back to what I was, what I was talking about earlier. But before we do, you said something that, it was a wondering and I don't know that there's a good answer to this, but you were talking about your husband, Jeff, and him not feeling like he was good at mathematics. Yeah. Because he struggled with the procedural part. Or at least he wasn't as fast at the procedural part. And yet, when you had real conversation with him and you were able to ask him questions, you discovered his reasoning.

Yeah. So, and this is probably a different podcast topic entirely. It struck me that he was able to develop the reasoning. And struggled to develop the procedure. So what was what was different? How do you reconcile

what allowed for him to develop the reasoning because he grew up in a time frame similar as you, what allowed for him to develop that reasoning and sense making in in spite of the struggle with the procedure?

00;34;43;10 - 00;35;21;22

Joanie

Yeah, well, and I don't know if there's a quick answer. It's another I think it's another podcast. I have some thoughts there. But let's put a pin in that I would the quick answer is I think there's a lot of sense making and reasoning about math that's innate. I just do, and I think when it's not fostered, there isn't.

And this is what it was for Jeff. He never saw the reasoning and the mathematical understanding that I uncovered, or I helped him uncover for himself. No math educator before me ever told him, that's math. 

00;35;21;22 - 00;38;00;00

Curtis

Yeah. And I think that's to two point again to, to Pam, to Pam's conversations and the things that I think I think it's the pointing to.

What are mathematicians doing. Yeah. That, that there are some of us that do it innately, some of us that don't. And then there's some of us who do it innately, but we don't know we do it. Yeah. And we get we get nervous and and and we not sure what's going on. And we don't have anybody who's encouraging that in us.

And I think, part of what you're talking about is your kind of growth in recognizing the opportunity to encourage that. Yes. In students. Absolutely. And that's that's really exciting. And I think that relates a little bit to, to kind of the curiosity that I have now, around artificial intelligence and its ability to now be personalized and, and talk to me and, and not answer things, not do what a calculator could do for me.

Right. Intentionally not do that. Obviously I could do that. But the fact that I can train it, I can talk to it and I can I can point it in a direction to where, it's interactions with a student or a learner can be, intentional and can be to trained to draw out that thinking that you're talking about, that you had, that you had the ability to draw out with Jeff, that the connections and the questions that, based upon his answers and his pattern recognitions and his things that he recognized in his questions that he had and his curiosities that, you you can make that, somewhat repeatable is a machine

ever going to be able to do it the way that that you as a human teacher can? No, I don't think so. But I do believe that there's opportunity in in developing curiosity, and allowing a student to be able to, to develop their own curiosity and ask different questions and be able to be led a little bit.

So I think, I think that's really the, the thing that I've experienced that's changed my mind is my own interactions with, with AI and my own both training. It, asking it good questions, the articulation of my question, and then, my seeing how my articulation changed it, response. Right has, has really given me, significantly more curiosity. 

00;38;00;06 - 00;38;48;01

Joanie

I love that, and I really appreciate that you put the the parameter around the shift in your belief, right?

That although you can now see a role for AI, that's really important and that's really meaningful and really powerful in what you value. You also recognize that it's it does still have its limitations, that it's not going to replace what a teacher can do and what a human can do. So, I'm curious, just because your topic is so timely, how does this shift in your thinking about AI and its role? Like what does that mean for you going forward? Like how do you see that changing the future of what you're doing in the space of math education?

00;38;49 ;01 - 00;39;18;00

Curtis / Joanie 

I'm not sure. Sorry in there. That question with, I don't know, Joni. Yeah. Well, but again, I'm trying to take us back to the beginning. Right. Like reflecting back and then how do we use the reflecting back to think forward like what is what, what potential do you think there is or what are your hopes around this?

This new belief in the value of AI and how it might play a role in the larger scope of being an educator? 

00;39;18;26 - 00;40;11;16

Curtis

 So, I do I think that there's just opportunity for us expanding the role. And I think the that, you know, I will have more questions and more curiosity and more opportunity now to go and explore that space.

And just ask the questions, what's possible? Because I think, you know, when I, when I'm in front of a classroom, I know the things that I believe and I can react to these things, and I can try to train up and I can ask the questions of Jeff, because I've got these connections that I've made now, and I have access to that, but there's only one of me.

If there's an opportunity for me to be able to to utilize another tool to help me expand my reach, that would be amazing. So I think there's a lot of opportunity for just continual exploration. 

00;40;12;16 - 00;40;35;01

Joanie

I love that, I love that, and I would just add, and I know you you talked about with guardrails in place and you talked about not to replace teachers and that it'll never do what a human can do.  So, reflecting back on what hasn't changed has helped you better define moving forward as well. So thanks for sharing. Yeah. Thank you.

00;40;37;26 - 00;40;55;12

Joanie Outro

Well, that's it for this time. Be sure to check the show notes for the resources we mentioned and others you might want to explore. We would love to hear your feedback and your suggestions for future topics. And if you're enjoying learning with us, consider leaving a review to help others find us and share the podcast with a fellow math educator. See you next time!